Disclaimer: I didn’t realize that Hugh was going to blog regarding Mr. Bentley. Although I thought about not posting, I realize that we took very different angles in our approach to the subject. While Hugh’s post is much prettier than mine (oh’ he is so good!), I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night! (just kidding, but it’s all I got!)
If you have been hanging around Grace for the last few months, you have certainly been exposed to the teaching we have been moving through regarding developing discernment when it comes to spiritual gifting. As part of this development, we actually assigned a church-wide project using the actions of Todd Bentley and the “Lakeland revival” as a focal point. Sadly, it is now reported that Mr. Bentley has separated from his wife and will be leaving the “revival” to enter into formal counseling. It is truly a sad time for those who looked to Mr. Bentley for spiritual authority and leadership. As many of you know, I wrote strongly against Mr. Todd Bentley because I thought what he was doing was not being authored by the Holy Spirit. There were some who thought I was acting way over-the-top in opposing something I could only view via youtube. However, based on the information that could easily be gleaned from what we viewed, the leadership of our Church was convinced that the actions of this man did not line up with the way the Holy Spirit works in the Bible. Simply put, the actions of Mr. Bentley stood in opposition to what God has communicated in His Word as well as the way God has acted through truly Spirit-filled people in the Bible. Bottom line? The legitimacy of the Lakeland Revival hinged more on the doctrine of Mr. Bentley than the experiences Mr. Bentley was pushing in support of his actions.
Does having to evaluate or examine a person’s belief system seem counter to the way the Holy Spirit works? Does engaging our brain limit the work of the Spirit? I mean, to be evaluating all the time is hard work! Shouldn’t we just shut off our brains and let the “Spirit” take us? No. Because only through the lens of God’s Word can we ascertain how we should act or behave. When our actions or behavior find their definition outside of revealed truth in God’s Word then there is no boundary by which we will be governed other than personal desire.
Thankfully, even those within the charismatic circle are beginning to realize that discernment is desperately needed if we are avoid such fallout in the future. While there are many things we can learn from this situation, we must not fail to realize the role played by those in spiritual leadership who allowed this charade to continue. I believe those who stood in support of Mr. Bentley’s leadership need to clearly and publicly repent as well. Why? The spiritual leadership supporting Mr. Bentley abandoned their responsibly to lead Mr. Bentley himself. Who were the shepherds for Mr. Bentley? Where was the accountability both personally and doctrinally? While Mr. Bentley should be held responsible for leading thousands (if not millions) down a murky path of experience-based Christianity (it may not be Christianity at all since I never heard the Gospel given) , there are scores of others in leadership who need to recognize their negligence and vow to never stand by silently again.
I think what bothered me the most about this whole thing, is that leaders were so reluctant to take a stand. Even the ones that didn’t agree with Todd’s methods, wouldn’t speak up. No one seems willing to take the verbal beating they know will come, if they say “this is NOT a move of God.” I’m not a leader of any sort, but I sure won’t hesitate to shed light on what is going on…even to my closest friends and staunch Bentley supporters. Thank you for stating the obvious questions associated with Todd’s “ministry”.
After reading on this poor “prophet’s” demise, I must go back and revist my comments from 7/14/2008….
“There are many false teachers. Ones that are blatent like Todd Bentley and others that seem calm and collected, and everything in between. Do they preach Jesus as God, His crucifixion and resurrection for ALL who believe to be saved by his Grace alone? That the bible is the authoritative end all and Word of God? If not then run away fast and pray for/love family and friends that might be trapped in such deception. When they eventually crash and burn in disappointment (and they will) when their false teacher is exposed lets be there to bring them back to the truth in love.”
I was just thinking….maybe she felt God told him to kick her in the face just too many times. She tried hiding his boots, but his feet hurt just as much! 🙂
Seriously, it is true to pray for those caught in such deception, but also true to pray for Todd and his wife. Hopefully this experience will bring about a sense of humility and fear of the Lord that will allow him to possibly experience what the Gospel is really about; It’s about the work of God, not him or what he can do.
We are saved by His Grace alone; it can’t be by what we do. Why? I believe Romans 7:14-25 answers that question.
I was in Wal Mart today and the cashier raised the question to me, “What is there that we don’t pay for?” Ah, one could say the gift of eternal life is free, but it did have a price! Christ paid it! Not us! A lot of times I think it’s the things we think are free we tend to take for granted. Perhaps that’s why the Gospel is watered down at times for legalists. They may think it’s not worth having unless they pay something for it; it’s their contribution that gives it value….false teaching again! But this is without considereing that Christ calls us to come and lay down our lives for Him. As Keith Green puts it, “saying, Your the Lord and I will follow you all the days of my life so that I may spend eternity with You.” We don’t earn it at all! But, grasping what He has done for us should compell us, by the power of the Holy Spirit only, to live a life for Him with gratitude. However we still have that Romans 7 scripture to wrestle with.
So what truly defines us? It is Christ. Who is the one we need to be most concerned about when it comes to our person and who we are? It is God, and when he sees us (If we in Him) He sees His Son and the work of His sacrifice; not our past, present, or future sin ..pretty cool huh?
In eternity, it won’t matter if Mr Todd was a Pastor or not. What will matter is if he knew God. His sin, if repented, is covered by the precious blood of Jesus. If that is the case, then he is a fellow brother in the Lord, despite his wayward path. Look at Paul. He persecuted Christains and finally God grabbed his heart. I’m sure there were times he relived memories of Christians being killed, beaten, and imprisioned, under his watch. That would probably keep him up at night. Yet, we read and learn about God from his teachings today. I’m so glad he didn’t quit, ’cause many rely on the Word of God written by the Holy Spirit through him, to keep them firm in the faith. We should pray the same for Todd. Who knows? God may use him in a mighty way in the future. People may be reading what he wrote or did 500 years from today. 🙂
(So sorry for writing another blog under my husbands…it’s long , I know.)
I always enjoy reading your fresh, positive (and feminine) approach to these kinds of issues Vicki.
I should have made mention to pray for Todd and his wife and family as that was part of the point in all this. That was a bit thoughtless on my part. There is always hope and God might choose to do a future mighty work in him through all this. Maybe also some of the people that came of out this situation would have a great testimony.
Kudos getting the Keith Green reference in there as that is always good stuff!
As far as 500 years from now? If Jesus has not come back yet then the only things people will probably (IMO) have in common with us for reading and listening is the Bible and the Beatles. 😉
WOw…Looking from the outside in, You Christians are funny!
I don’t know Jack from Jill, don’t care much about Heaven…could care less about Hell…but just reading stuff about this guy, The People, or should I say “the christians” on this post, it seems like they dedicate alot of their time to proving this guy is a “false prophet” than….i don’t know, “praying” for your so called “brother”….wow…that’s just the way it looks to me.
IF the devil is real…and I’m making BIG MOVES for God like healing people and stuff like that “why wouldn’t the devil try to screw me up?” of course he’s going to get not only the media but my sisters and brothers and close ones to turn on me.
It seems hard to me. I mean…he’s not God, he’s just a guy God decided to call and use him I guess….okay…he started drinking…doesn’t the bible say something about a “RIGHTEOUS” man falling seven times but getting back up. A “RIGHTEOUS” man….look at that, even I know that! A RIGHTEOUS man makes mistakes too.
David, a “righteous” man after GOD’s own heart, who was more passionate than that guy??? NOT YOU! and he banged a next soldiers wife…..so…..I guess repenting is the important thing here.
Now, coincidentally everything’s crashing and now he’s getting a divorce. I think it’s what you guys call “Spiritual Warfare”…crap happening that “We humans” don’t see. Hey, maybe I should think about my life and where I’m headed, because…it’s seems like I’m getting kind of compassionate for this guy Todd. lol…….but really,
YOu guys are mean man, ha ha ha….take you’re hat off “you were right”….what….do you feel good now????….
I would think the devil works more on people who are doing things for God than unheard about people who are running churches where nothings happening and writing stupid post trying to flop the next mans ministry. Just makes sense to me……I’m PERFECT, so I don’t need God. Why did you need God?……
And I think God works on people who post comments on blogs that shouldn’t matter to them. Why do you bother?
Clearly, you have enough moral sense to recognize that some things are just wrong. Take a look at the man in the mirror, “Hells Angel”… is there anything wrong with what you see? Or is it only other people’s failings that bother you?
You’re right, repenting is the important thing when it comes to our failings. But seeing how you felt free to take issue with the comments posted here, I think you’ll agree that calling out somebody’s need to repent is no failing. So I’d like to challenge you to “take the log out of your own eye” before you go any further.
Consider how you need to repent. Consider how corrupt you are against a standard of total perfection. Ask yourself why you should be shown any mercy for your failings. Is there anything so great about you that you should get a pass on the high standards you apply to everyone else?
C’mon… you and I both know you’re a complete disaster — and I don’t know anything about you, except that you’re just another human being.
There is good news available to complete disasters like you and me, but it doesn’t come through a spiritual fraud who makes a name for himself by kicking people in the face. It comes through Jesus Christ — the one who was put to death to pay for your guilt and give you a clean slate so you can live the life you were always meant to live.
Thinking about that is a better use of your time than venting on a blog like this. Give it some thought.
“Hells’ Angel” thanks for feeling free to post on our site, we welcome it!
In regard to: The People, or should I say “the christians” on this post, it seems like they dedicate alot of their time to proving this guy is a “false prophet” than….i don’t know, “praying” for your so called “brother”….wow…that’s just the way it looks to me
I would like to clarify a couple of things…
One, this entry was dedicated to helping people grow in discernment of what is right and what is wrong based on the Bible. We take no delight in the weakness of a man nor do we think we are above him in any way. We simply want to point out how this man is not fit to serve in the way he was serving. Wouldn’t you think this is a fair thing to do? Or do I not have the freedom and right (according to the Bible), to do this?
Two, how do you know we haven’t prayed for Mr. Bentley? When I write comments like I do I will be praying as I write or take a moment after I write it to pray about its content and/or the person it is speaking about. So, you accuse me of doing the wrong thing and yet don’t know me or the situation enough to truly have an educated opinion. Doesn’t that seem oddly familiar with the issue you have against me?
Three, to say “the christians” is also very judgmental. I never once said that Todd was not a Christian. I communicated that I had not heard him give the Gospel. Since miracles were a setup to give the Gospel in the Bible, I questioned his appreciation and understanding of the Gospel. Isn’t that a legitimate thing to do? Yet, you have the ability, from complete anonymity, to actually question whether we are “the christians” or not? Wow, while you think you are making comments in purity and sincerity you are acting as if you are actually extremely arrogant and mean-spirited.
Do you see how your charge against me and the other posted here is actually an indicted against yourself?
@Hells Angel
Why do I need God? I believe the bible is true. God created the universe and everything in it. He did so not because he needed anything but because he is good. He created people in his image. People who strive for justice and peace, who love beauty and goodness. But something happened, people rebelled and we rejected God. We rejected his goodness, and his protection in preference for our own desires. God gave us what we wanted. We wanted to know evil, and that came at a high price. We are corrupt by nature and by choice, rebelling in doing what we should not and not doing what we should. We declared war on God and made him the enemy. While we were enemies of God, because of his goodness, God came to earth. Jesus lived a life I couldn’t live, un-corrupted and without rebellion. He gave his life at our hand and rose from the dead three days later to show us what he said and what he did was true. Belief in him is an affirmation that you believe in God not just his existence but his character, his goodness, his perfection and our corruption. He showed himself to be exactly what we are not and cannot be.
I believe these things not because I wish they were true, but because all the evidence tells me it is true. I don’t see how everything we see could just spring up. Something must have created it. I hate corruption, I hate evil, I believe there is a moral standard and I don’t see anyone living up to it all the time. Least of all me. There must be a rightness to the world that is not. People dying isn’t right. Unpunished crime isn’t right. There is no reason to doubt what is written in the bible is not true. No one likes the bible but it is terribly accurate.
I was once like you, I never claimed perfection but I did think I was good enough. The truth is, I was only good enough when compared to the worst humanity has to offer. I fall way short of any kind of standard much more than that. Since God has opened my eyes, I can see all my failings and I cannot ignore them. I am still selfish, greedy, critical of others, wanting justice when others wrong me and mercy when I wrong others. And it sickens me. Because Jesus was judged for what I do, I can now know God, the perfect creator of the universe, despite my flaws. I can see that there is more to my life than just whatever crap I am doing. I can strive to be better but even if I don’t make it all the time I am accepted by God because he is always good.
What the bible says is true. We are all indebted to God for our creation. We are all responsible to God for our rebellion. We can all know God through his goodness. That is why I need God and that is why I want God. We all have a choice, enjoy God and his goodness forever, or endure our own corruption forever. Which would you prefer?
:wq ¢¢
Ummm for the first guy…you don’t make any sense. It’s either, you didn’t understand my post or….whatever, I’m not going to put anyone down since you obviously are offended, or convicted….your choice.
“And I think God works on people who post comments on blogs that shouldn’t matter to them. Why do you bother?”
Okay….is this post for the public??? maybe I should ask Mr. Miller that question. But I thought it was, maybe that is my bad. So sorry.
But anyways….it does matter. Especially if you’re looking for Truth. Your behaviour is no different from my pitbulls, I’m looking for fruit….is it wrong to check sites of religion when you’re searching for Truth??….So in a way yes this Blog does matter to me.
“Clearly, you have enough moral sense to recognize that some things are just wrong. Take a look at the man in the mirror, “Hells Angel”… is there anything wrong with what you see? Or is it only other people’s failings that bother you?”
THis is the last statement I will comment for Hugh, cause “Hugh ain’t got a clue”…..what the Hell are you talking about? Other people’s failing that bother me??…don’t get what you’re saying….are you admitting that what people are posting is not right and I should not judge them because they can write post inaccurate? or do you think that I’m criticizing about Todd Bentley’s failings. I was kinda backing up the guy, so….you got me a little confused there. Next………………..
Mr. Miller…I hear you…can’t say I agree entirely but I hear you. What is a christian? Isn’t it a disciplined follower of Christ??…….you stated……
“I never once said that Todd was not a Christian.”….fair enough….but from what I was reading in the earlier post, it seemed like he was put into the same categories as “False Prophets”….No?……..
Can False prophets be christians???? I’m asking, I don’t know, but by definition of a christian, I don’t see how someone who is false can claim to be situated in the “Truth” .
O’Ryan…I hear you too…..but you didn’t have to write 10 paragraphs…I was somewhat being a smart ass by basically saying…….”I don’t need God I’m perfect, why do you need God”…..you needed him because I guess you recognized your imperfections….which comes down to Todd Bentley’s case. Isn’t that one of the reasons why he “gave his life” to God, because he was imperfect??…so why dog him because of his imperfection. I’m not even going to get into the case about kicking someone in the face….my only question to that is….did the person get healed? or were they injured?……..if they Got healed…….well……who says God didn’t tell him that??
“How about this…..”Todd I want you to spit in that guys face and it will restore his sight”……..better????
@HA: I’m glad to hear this blog matters to you. But I still don’t get why you care about this blog or Todd Bentley or God or any of this stuff. Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad you do… but the tone of your remarks makes me think you’re generally put off by this sort of thing. Why do you pursue this?
But maybe you answered that question already: you’re searching for truth. Did you think you would find it here — is that why you pursue these questions here? How does Todd Bentley (or what people say about him) have anything to do with your search for truth?
(I can think of a few answers — I’m just interested in yours.)
Also, if I edit your post to take out the sarcasm and superfluous punctuation, there’s little left. A bona fide search for truth can’t just be a lot of noise. Maybe I was a little aggressive in my initial comment, but I was just trying to match your temperature. Want to cool off a bit and try again?
HA- Let me start out saying that the tone of this post is that of a friendly conversation- not an attack.
It seems to me that you do care about Heaven and Hell (your “name”, your search for Truth) which is exactly why Christians want to point out false prophets. It’s not a fun or easy task and no one takes delight in it, but they(false prophets) are not fair representations of Truth. I personally pray for people like Mr. Bentley (and you:)) in hope that they will find the Truth which is Jesus Christ. It’s something one must do personally, and I commend you if you are truly doing that. I think when one fairly, unbiasedly, un-presuppositionally, searches for Truth, the evidence of the one true God and His Son Jesus is overwhelming.
It seems to me that at the core of your post it really comes down to you feeling like the “Christians”, who are “supposed to” be kind and loving are harshly criticizing another Christian brother. Christian are called to do so(again, not taking any delight in it) though I personally do not feel that Mr. Bentley is a true Christian (because of the blatant misrepresentation of Truth). It seems arrogant and judgmental and you are rooting for the underdog that you think is being attacked. So it really comes down to a feeling of “See, those “Christians” are doing mean things again!” None of us are perfect(Christians and non-Christians)! We are all sinners who need God’s grace. I personally can get little too fervent with my views and feelings on this matter because it really upsets me when people falsely represent Truth. Often I start write a book of a response to these kinds of posts based on the strong emotions I feel. After reading them I delete them as I realize my response is really just me venting(as I feel your post is). These postings were in response to a sermon on spiritual gift discernment. Could somebody computer-savvy make an easy link to that from here? Perhaps you to listen to that and then continue the conversation?
@Hells Angel
You seem to value Truth, why?
Thank you guys for…..putting me down in a nice way….????
Anyhow…..You all are speaking nicely but there’s one thing you can’t fake and that is one’s Spirit…anyhow….I’m not even going to get into that, I don’t want to get too deep for you guys.
So…quickly………….Taaryn………
thank you for letting me know it was a follow up of a sermon, makes a better understanding, not that I didn’t understand before. You stated…..
“None of us are perfect(Christians and non-Christians)! We are all sinners who need God’s grace.”
You know….I’m starting to think I know my Bible better you folks….Not Good.
Please, Please, Please…pretty please with a cherry on top can you tell me One…just 1 place in the Bible where it states Christians are sinners?….I know where it says about “Royal Priesthood”….I know where it says “Children of God”….hmmm…..but isn’t “sin” separation from God????
Before you were a christian, you were a sinner…you might have the “sin nature” now, because you are a human, but “by the Bible” it states you are NOT a sinner……..wowwie! Do you need Gods grace, or do you have Gods grace??? I thought you had Gods grace. What book do you read? Is this a Moron….sorry Mormon Site???
I guess it was true when the Bible said that the Devil know’s his word too. lol…….
Ok Mr.Hugh…..I’ll let it be known for inquiring minds………I know the Guy……I’ve known him for 15 years. We don’t keep contact anymore, because of his “decision”. I guess when you become a christian “Old friends defile your walk”…I don’t know. But this kind of stuff I told him about. And now I see how it.
I thought, wow, this guy is big now, maybe he was right…maybe their is a GOd and I am scum…I don’t know. But now I see he left everyone to follow his “belief” and now it has left him dry. Now his name and face is all over the internet in shame. Is that what a loving God does? Is that what Christians do?…so yes…I inquire cause I want to know why a friend leaves his friends for something like this. So that’s why it bothers ME….I’m finished. Have a good day “GOD”.
Hells Angel, I can see your point when you say: … “I was reading in the earlier post, it seemed like he was put into the same categories as “False Prophets”….No?……..Can False prophets be christians???? I’m asking, I don’t know,”
I will surrender that the point I was making was strong enough to assume that the idea of Mr. Bentley not being a Christian was coming through in my writing. Now that I have considered your argument, I realize I could have been clearer. The idea I was trying to communicate was that a person can be a Christian and yet be false in his or her teaching on a given point. However, connecting this idea by using an Old Testament pejorative like “false prophet” does carry the baggage of not being a Christian. Thanks for helping me there.
I do hope he is a Christian, just severely deceived.
Also, the idea of a Christians simply stated as “a disciplined follower of Christ” is very loose. We would need to determine what exact information is accepted by the “disciple” regarding his or her view of Christ. If we answer this base-line definition then we can tackle your final idea of: “by definition of a christian, I don’t see how someone who is false can claim to be situated in the “Truth.”
BTW. We do welcome all opinion and ideas here as long as mutual respect and deference is given. Personal attacks are frowned on. Let’s try to keep this beneficial for all regarding the issues.
@HA: Thanks for opening up with that background info. It really does put your comments into context.
A couple of thoughts… you said:
The fact that Todd’s ministry gained prominence doesn’t say anything about whether God exists or not. The fact that our church hasn’t gained much prominence doesn’t say anything about whether God exists or He doesn’t.
The same is true about the whole “I am scum” thing. Just because a famous person tells you you’re scum doesn’t mean you are, in fact, scum.
Yes. King David messed up big-time and his sins have been recorded for literally billions of people to read about. The Old Testament prophets were routinely hung out to dry. Jesus, hanging on the cross, asked why he had been forsaken. Being on God’s side does not guarantee an easy ride — the opposite is more often the case. And yet people still do it. Why would people continue this way if there weren’t any truth to it?
Christians and non-Christians both come down hard on people who defraud the things that are important to them.
People always do what they’re most motivated to do. At some point, your friend decided that the way he was going was more important to him than the people he left behind. Only he can tell you why.
The question is, where did he go? I think the important thing here — and this goes back to Dan’s original post — is that the way Todd Bentley went is not the same way we’re going. He may say he’s following Christ, but the evidence gives us no reason to have confidence in that.
here’s some truth from behind the scenes in Abbotsford. Jessa first of all was an intern in the fall 08 cycle. She never applied for it Todd invited her into the internship. Even after a board member severly opposed it. Later Todd invited her and another intern to live in his house during the internship, and after the internship as a live in nanny.
At the same time the Bellingham, Washington church was being established so fresh fire could get a legal foot hold in America. This is evident by the lack and the sheer refusal to work with the local churches. It was just for the papers not the church.
In January 2009 2 members of the board confronted Todd about Jessa, and that it was wrong and they couldn’t stand by him about it. They where “relieved” of their position for doing so. This shouldn’t be surprising as another member of FFM was faceed with the same threat, after he caught Todd with another woman in England (this is what the dark night of the soul was actually about), the FFM member was forced to either work for FFM outside of North America or be fired. Jessa is woman number 4 that Todd has cheated on Shonnah with.
Todd isn’t 100% to blame just 80% the rest of the blame falls on those board members and pastors that refused to confront Todd on his infidelities. One in particular had the mind set that if Todd does it, it’s okay even if it isn’t for others. Others refused to confront because they didn’t want to loose their jobs (like many have over the years)
Even in Lakeland which I personally think was a two edged work of God, it was a blessing to the locals who have prayed for God to move. And the other edge was a judgement on Todd, in total over the top Todd style. During the highet of revival there was excessive drinking, slasher flicks, and other things I wont get into now with Todd and his inner circle (yes men). There was infighting with the leaders on stage, and the interns where just slaves with ministry badges. Or the fact that all the money collected for the orphans and for sudan never made it to them, it was instead used to pay for the buildings/land for the revival.
Even after Lakeland fell apart, and the news finally became public, Todd never returned home to Abbotsford. He remained in America (illegally) in California, then a breif stop in Reno for their quickey divorce rules. Then it was off to Rick Joyner and his marriage with Jessa
These words are not made up, this is a summary of many conversations I have had with former FFM employees, board members and former interns. I just can’t stand by and see Todd get away with this for a fourth time. A man who has turned his back on his wife and children once again. yet will be received by the masses as THE man of God.