Here’s this week’s entry. Remember, it’s not just “who said it” that we’re interested in — it’s just as much about what you think of the idea. And no Googling!
Nobody can be argued into the kingdom of God, for the very reason that Christianity does not concern ideas but a living reality.
Update 7/28 3:30 PM:
The answer is Alister E. McGrath, in his book Understanding the Trinity.
To be fair, the fuller quote goes like this:
Nobody can be argued into the kingdom of God, for the very reason that Christianity does not concern ideas but a living reality. To persuade someone that God exists is not necessarily to make him a Christian, but for someone to encounter the living God and respond to him—now that is something very different.
Prof. McGrath is not one to belittle a thoughtful approach to faith. He is perhaps most famous for his insightful critiques of noted atheist Richard Dawkins.
The truth is, lots of people casually dismiss arguments for Christianity because “nobody gets argued into the kingdom.” That’s true so far as it goes, but the Gospel is not advanced by promoting the idea that it is without compelling arguments in its favor.
I’ll conclude with some thoughts from theologian-philosopher William Lane Craig. In his lecture, Christian Apologetics–Who Needs It?, Dr. Craig explained the need for a reasoned defense of the faith, even though reason and argument per se will never get someone saved. He discussed the difficult challenge we will face in recovering intellectual territory the church has surrendered over the last century, and concluded:
…It is for that reason that Christians who depreciate the value of apologetics because “no one comes to Christ through intellectual arguments” are so short-sighted. For the value of apologetics extends far beyond one’s immediate evangelistic contact. It is the broader task of Christian apologetics to help create and sustain a cultural milieu in which the Gospel can be heard as an intellectually viable option for thinking men and women. In his article “Christianity and Culture” the great Princeton theologian J. Gresham Machen rightly declared,
“False ideas are the greatest obstacles to the reception of the gospel. We may preach with all the fervor of a reformer and yet succeed only in winning a straggler here and there, if we permit the whole collective thought of the nation to be controlled by ideas which prevent Christianity from being regarded as anything more than a harmless delusion.”
Unfortunately, Machen’s warning went unheeded, and biblical Christianity retreated into the intellectual closets of cultural isolationism, from which we have only recently begun to re-emerge.
C. S. Lewis.
This statement is one of balance. I think Jesus would agree, and so would Paul. On the other hand, Paul used skillful arguments to persuade people’s minds to believe. And Peter exhorts us to give rational arguments for our beliefs.
As I said before, it’s about balance. It’s about loving God with all parts of our being—including both heart and mind.
Karl Barth?
There are several ways to examine this. Let me take a shot at one angle. Rhetoric and argumentation cannot be the basis for a person’s conversion due to the nature of humanity – we are spiritually dead. Therefore, if the presentation is not supercharged by God’s Spirit, the best that can be accomplished is a slick presentation and an insightful message.
I think I could say ‘yes’ to the first half that no one can be argued into the kingdom. Becoming a Christian is not a matter of me agreeing with the teachings of another Christian or even of Jesus but is a matter of the Holy Spirit having given me new life – what I think Dan was getting at.
However, I think its somewhat of an overstatement to say that Christianity does not ‘concern ideas’ (as in at all). God often uses Christian ideas or arguments as the means to open a sinner’s eyes. Of course, even in those cases it is not the argument that has ultimately ‘won’ the person but the activity of the Holy Spirit that has made the difference.
Who said it? Not sure, it does sound kind of Neo-Orthodox though so I think Barth is a good guess, maybe Niebuhr?
Yeah, it could be either of those guys or an Emergent guy from today.
Like Larry said, it’s an overstatement. People are not argued into the kingdom. True enough. Does this mean that we don’t make defenses or arguments for Christianity’s truthfulness?
People aren’t loved into the kingdom. Does this mean that we, therefore, shouldn’t show love to lost people as part of our evangelization enterprise?
I’d like to know how we can have a ‘living reality’ that is divorced from ‘ideas’ anyway.
Very interesting points. Please allow me to be a Watson among you Sherlock Holmes-You know the average one.
I do wonder if those who were argued into the kingdom of God, without the Spirit’s leading, are those who are like the Pharisees? In the church, going through the motions, because they were persuaded, either by parents or friends, that Christianity is the right way.
While I may agree with the statement, I think of people who looked to find an argument against Christianity(Like Josh McDowell)and came to the conclusion of it’s truth and became a believer. I would not say, of course, that his conversion happened without the Holy Spirit’s guidance. Could it be that that the Holy Spirit guided him in his quest? I would say absolutely. I wonder, how many people came to the knowledge of Christ through Josh’s writings and through people like Lee Stroble?
Could it be more of an issue that the harvest is plentiful. We as laborers are to throw out the seed. Those the Holy Spirit is moving will absorb the truth. Some by reason of arguement. Sort of like having a chocolate craving and being given a candy bar. O.K. Maybe too much on that thought!
If you really think about it, which of us heard the gospel and received it, without first considering the cost and it’s veracity?
As far as my guess goes-I couldn’t say. I just hope it’s not Hitler.(Kind of a scared smile on that one).
No clue on who said it but I don’t like the tone of it (how very parental of me). Clearly, no one can be “argued” into the kingdom. They may be able to have wrong thinking processes argued out, but they can’t be talked into the kingdom. No problem there.
But, “for the very reason that Christianity does not concern ideas…” What?! What is this person saying? That Christianity doesn’t consider (non-believer’s) ideas important (enough to try and refute)? Or maybe believers don’t know enough about what they believe to be able to give a reasonable argument?
I’m with Eric on the impossibility of maintaining a “living reality” for something without having any ideas about it. How would that work? How would you know if your “reality” is correct?
I’m inclined to think this was written by either:
a believing peacemaker who has an incomplete picture of Christianity- where one has to live rightly but not think, or
a non-believer who is frustrated by the lack of intellectual care given to ideas outside the Christian circle by those who claim to know higher truths (about God, etc).
Anxiously awaiting the answer, and to find out who these other persons are you all have mentioned.:0)
Just to clarify my above statements in light of the later discussion, I took “does not concern ideas but a living reality” to mean “is not primarily a matter of the head but of the heart.” That interpretation may well be wrong, but my comments should be evaluated in light of how I understood the quote.
It’s OK Jeffrey… so what if Lewis is somewhere muttering in the corner of Heaven, “How could the boy think I would say something like that?” Really, it’s OK.
I’ve updated the post with the answer — and some thoughts of my own.
Yippee! It wasn’t Hitler.
Thanks for the link about his life. I thought it was very interesting that he was a former atheist.
Is there going to be a fourth quote?
Yes, there’s a fourth quote. Have fun!