As I write this, I’m thinking of all sorts or reasons not to put this “out there” for people to see. This is my first blog, and I admit I’m afraid that I’m going to ramble, as is often the case (and judging by the length of this post, IS the case, already). But, mostly I’m afraid that I might say something wrong or be challenged and unable to back up something that I may assert. So, why am I doing this, anyhow? Well, it’s for that very reason! I need to be challenged. It is too easy to live life without thinking through what we believe and why we believe it. I think this is particularly true of many women. We tend to be doers and caregivers, and we are plenty busy with those things. This is wonderful, because this is how I believe God has wired us, so that we can be well-equipped for the role He has given us as “helpers.” (uh-oh, possible area of challenge :-)) As doers and caregivers, it is usually easy to see ways we are able to contribute our gifts and talents by “doing” in the home and in the church and oftentimes in the workforce and community. Unfortunately, many of us are content and stop there. Often, we stay in our comfort zones and don’t step out to see how God may want to stretch us more. I’d like to propose that the “life of the mind” is an area that He might want to focus us on, so that we can expand our view of God, of His world, and of why it matters to think properly about Him and His world.
Several years ago, my husband and I had the opportunity to hear, Greg Koukl of Stand to Reason, when he spoke at a conference in Atlanta. For years, I have been amazed at how he can reason through any issue that is put before him, whether Biblical or secular in nature. At the conference, though, I found one issue that he admitted sort of stumped him . . . how to encourage women to “think their Christianity” and not just feel it or do it. After some thought, his advice was to start with “dry tinder,” and he suggested I read an article he wrote on that subject. I left unhappy with that answer because I didn’t know how to go about it or whom I could start with.
This past April, Mr. Koukl spoke at our church, and I had the opportunity to ask him that same question, again. Can you believe it?! He gave me the same answer!!! Aaarrgghh!!! Well, this time, I took it to heart. So, I talked to three ladies I thought might be interested in the area of “thinking our Christianity” and learning more about what it means to have a Christian worldview, rather than just random and/or piecemeal Christian ideas, habits, and behaviors. I told them I was going to send one email to the ladies of the church, and maybe we’d get a few responses from other ladies who might be interested, but that it might just be the four of us. After I sent my email, I was quite excited to have received emails from almost 20 ladies! I couldn’t believe the response! Most of us are now involved in a summer book discussion group where we are reading and discussing our first book: Love Your God with All Your Mind by J. P. Moreland. I must tell you that it is a very challenging, convicting, and exciting book that focuses on the importance of the development of “the life of the mind” in spiritual transformation. It is not a difficult book to read, but in some ways, it is not an easy book to read either . . . but then, that’s the point. In this day and age, we are often not challenged beyond the shallow. When we are, it’s not necessarily an easy journey, but it is an important one. Anything worth staking your life on is worth disciplined study and thinking.
There are so many quotes from Moreland’s book that I would love to share, but I wouldn’t know where to start (or stop). If any ladies out there would like to throw out some quotes or ideas from the book that have impacted you, feel free. Guys, if your wife is reading this book, what a great opportunity you have to read it with her and to discuss how “the life of the mind” is crucial to consider in every aspect of life. It will enrich your lives to read and think through these ideas. I hope you will!
Oh, and for a taste of what‘s in the book, check out The Importance of the Mind in Christian Living. This is a talk that Moreland gave in 1995 at the Texas A&M Veritas Forum while he was writing Love Your God with All Your Mind, so it closely resembles parts of the book. (Thanks to Hugh for the link!)
You have picked one of the best books to begin a discussion on developing the Christian mind. I have really enjoyed reading this book so much that I do not mind reading it again. This time I am taking notes though!
I have a lot on my plate this summer, so I will only throw one out there. I appreciate the clarification of faith’s relationship to reason. On page 25 Moreland says that, biblically, “faith is a power or skill to act in accordance with the nature of the kingdom of God, a trust in what we have reason to believe is true. Understood this way, we see that faith is built on reason. We should have good reasons for thinking that Christianity is true before we dedicate ourselves completely to it. We should have solid evidence that our understanding of a biblical passage is correct before we go on to apply it.”
Sermons should target people’s thinking not just wills and feelings. Sunday school should train believers how to think carefully about their faith. Training in apologetics should be a regular part of discipleship to help people overcome obstacles that block them from coming to or growing in the faith by giving reasons for why one should believe Christianity and the ability to respond to objections raised against it. (Moreland, p.26)
Thanks for following through with providing an small group discussion for the women of our church to love the Lord with all our minds!
Donna, welcome to the blogosphere of GF! It’s one more way we can try to figure out how women think…
Never fear someone asking you something you don’t know – it happens all the time to me. Opportunities like these are simply invitations to find out what is the right thing to believe.
Donna,
Your blog was food for thought for a man too. Thanks for visiting a topic I struggle with.
Rose, that was one of the MANY quotes that I had underlined in my book. I think we often underestimate the role of reason as a tool God uses in bringing us to faith and growing us up in faith. Moreland also makes the case that Scripture shows us, in many passages, the value of extrabiblical knowledge, as well as Scriptural knowledge. He says that some distort various passages when they use them as a basis for not putting forth a reasoned case, because it is “futile, especially when applied to evangelism.” p. 58
He goes on to say on page 59:
“The doctrine of depravity doesn’t mean reason is irrelevant. Some argue that the human intellect is fallen, depraved, darkened, and blinded, and therefore human reason is irrelevant or suspect when it comes to becoming or growing as a Christian. Now, even if this point is granted in the case of evangelizing unbelievers, it doesn’t follow that Christians should not use or clutivate their intellects once they have become disciples. Moreover, from the fact that reasoning alone will not bring someone to Christ, it does not follow that we should not persuade or reason with people. Preaching alone will not save people without the Spirit’s work, but we still preach and work on our messages. We should do the same thing with our use of reason in evangelism.”
I would agree with this statement, but I’ve heard that some in our camp of a reformed view of salvation would disagree with Moreland on this. Thoughts?
Donna, I’m so excited to see your name on a blog! I really appreciate your passion for women to dig deeper into spiritual truths.
The other day, Dan and I watched a show on Jim Jones and the whole tragedy that took place in Jonestown. Ex-members talked about their experience in the cult. They looked to Jim to give them total direction. Although some of them, in their conscience, felt the things that Jim was doing were wrong, they were tied to him emotionally. They were so accustomed to being told what to do, that thinking for themselves became an unspiritual trait. Punishment would naturally fall on those who were challenging Jim’s authority. Another interesting thing was that in Jonestown, Jim would deliver the news to the people. Of course it was slanted to make him look more like a savior to them. The people thought America was against them and Jonestown was the only place to experience true peace on earth. As you know, this type of blind thinking led to over 900 deaths. The babies crying in the background of the audio tape just brought me to tears. I was even more overwhelmed at their spiritual poverty.
May I make a comparison to the church of today and Jonestown, without sounding like a heathen? I think there are people who get so used to being a spectator at church that they grow comfortable in their role of just taking in what is said. Then one day they find themselves looking at a passage that seems to contradict another passage. They find themselves questioning their leaders, the Bible, and then eventually God. There may be a fear of feeling foolish for asking or a doubt that a pastor could know the answer. They may hate the idea of just questioning God. After all, aren’t good Christians supposed to just trust and obey? There could be a sense of fear that God will punish them or remove His love from them, if they probe a little deeper. Some may think that deeper questions are only for those pursuing ministry. There is also the idea that the answer could change their view of God and they are comfortable with their “God in a box” mentality.
Where does this thinking lead? Many times it leads straight into the hands of the enemy. Hearts grow cold, somehow down inside those unanswered questions become a foothold in their faith. Possibly, they get to a point to where they might think they know more than those leading, because they see holes in the teaching. Then come questions like,”Is God really true? Have I ever explored anything else or am I just a follower?” After years of keeping quiet, church becomes more like religion to them and they chose to attend so that their children will turn out to be moral, well-rounded kids. Besides, it’s a place where everyone knows your name. Eventually the lack of zeal becomes evident to their kid’s, because they see the hypocrisy in their parents. I say this only because I’ve seen it happen. Not asking questions, not reasoning through tough issues or not seeking to know more makes a rushing river turn into a stagnant pond. We think we are getting better when in reality those unanswered questions are logs being used to dam up the fresh stream. Like Jonestown, the end is tragic and people pay a terrible price for not thinking.
Some of the most pivotal times in my faith have been when I have questioned something about God or His word I found myself seeking Him diligently, reading His word, and asking those wiser what they thought. When the answer came, I saw how much bigger God was than when I first questioned. How wise He is! Nothing is too complicated for Him! No question baffles Him! ( Very big happy smile) I am so sorry for writing a book on your first blog. Thanks for the deep thinking time. Gotta go clean dishes and talk to little ones now.
Vicki (The other Miller)
Hey Vicki!
I feel like you when I am done with blog entries. I intentionally try to limit how much I write, but find that the words flow easily when responding to something about which I have a passion. Your points were right on target and the way you write helps to make some very real connections.
Perhaps the point that I appreciate the most is the danger of ignorance in the life of the believer. Ignorance blinds us to make informed decisions, to live transformed lives that lead others to Christ (including our own children), and erodes our confidence/ trust in God.
Thankfully, as you also pointed out, God is not really offended by our questions. He is bigger than them and lovingly reveals Himself and the truth of His creation as we diligently seek Him and evidences of His truth in creation. This is the type of faith that glorifies Him most, not blind faith, but faith that continually seeks Him and His glory and results in greater wisdom and understanding.
Oh Rose,
I wish I could word things so much more intellectually like you and Donna (Big Smile). You just summed up my book(previous blog reply). You might consider doing this for a living.
Thanks for the encouragement! Great food for thought for today also!
Vicki,
Honestly, your style reaches more people who can relate with the questions you posed. I wouldn’t change a thing. I didn’t provide a single example of how these concepts play out in real-life. You give a much better picture of the dangers of ignorance; I was just agreeing with you.
Your intelligence shows vividly through the pictures you paint with words. ‘Rushing river and stagnant pond’? Sounds more like you are cut out for writing for a living! (Bigger smile!)
If the ladies of Grace all thought and wrote the same it would actually be boring, because only some of the people would be engaged. Your analogy was presented in a way that touches our hearts and hopefully will move us to action. Hope to see you tonight!
Rose, Shouldn’t your name be Barnabas(encourager)? If I call you Barney at church, that is why,(more than a big smile-I’m down right laughing out loud at that one).
Donna, last nights discussion was fabulous! I am still chewing on the “spiritual” meat you served. It was a feast! I also really appreciated the dynamic of the group.
Thanks so much. I Hope all goes well as far as getting your computer going today.
Who’d a thought we ladies would be blogging like the big dogs! Just goes to show that we’re thinking on a higher plain nowadays. All to God’s glory!
Donna, last night was really interesting. I had thought that I could whip through four chapters of the book just like usual ’cause after all, I AM an excellent reader (ugh!), but this stuff has to be chewed on (and chewed on and chewed on….) then after you read it, you must do some real soul searching because you just KNOW he’s talking to you in some places (especially in the “empty self” section.) I loved it, though. Thanks for facilitating this. It will be interesting to see how many “Grace Talk” questions come out of it. Better be ready, Dan!
Last thing, I feel so totally blessed to call Grace Fellowship my home. There is no excuse for not growing in our faith because of the many opportunities provided by our leadership (and their wives:) Yeahhhhhh God!
Y’all encourage me. Periodically I check the Grace site to see what’s going on with y’all, and to see what interesting/funny stuff people are blogging about (it’s a good way to stay connected since the combination of running sound/playing guitar/hanging out with students keeps charles and I from visiting Grace). Today when I looked and saw the enthusiasm regarding loving God with all your mind I was totally pumped. Being able to apply christian thought to all areas, both secular and christian, is so crucial – after all, we can’t fully worship if we aren’t loving God with all our minds. Anyway, you guys rock. hopefully I’ll get to visit at some point. Pray that the women at my church (Watkinsville First Baptist) would catch the same fire for depth that the Lord has given y’all. I love you guys!
…oh yeah…Theresa (Rindone) says “hi”…we’re both typing away while trying to digest the sushi we ate for dinner…
Bye!
Vicki Voss- We’re like the big dogs now? How funny! So glad you are a part of the Grace Fellowship Family too!
Hey, back at you two, Bethany and Theresa. Great hearing from you!
I wonder, since I did not have the book that night, if one of you ladies(From the study)could summarize what he meant by the “empty self”? It sounded interesting.
My internet connection is back up! Yea!!! I was thrilled to see all of your input on the blog, Ladies (and Men)!
First, Vicki M., you painted a vivid portrait of what is a very dangerous trend in our culture. Many of us grew up in environments where we didn’t feel like we could ask questions, or if we did, we wouldn’t get solid answers from the church. Now, many continue to attend church, but we are often still afraid to ask those questions that, we presume, might shake our faith. And those of us with children are frightened that they might ask US those hard questions that might shake THEIR faith. But we should not be afraid of the Truth. The Truth is there! We should not be afraid of looking for it. Our God is very big and shows throughout His Word that He desires us to have minds that seek Him. As Rose said, God is not offended by our questions. We must search the Scriptures as the Bereans did in Acts 17, when we hear teaching. We need to encourage our children to do the same. We must also be equipped to reason with the culture as the Bible tells us Paul did throughout the Scriptures, and of course, we must be ready to “give an answer . . . for the hope [we] posses. Yet do it with courtesy and respect” 1 Peter 3:15, 16. If we can’t use our minds for those things, how much are we going to truly “reach” our culture and our neighbors or “build and equip” our families and fellow believers? This is one of the reasons I’m so thankful our Leadership Team does Grace Talk. It shows the church body that it’s good to ask questions. I’m very thankful for you guys!
Bethany, I’m so excited to see your comment! You and Charles are in prime territory for dry tinder! Students are a great place to encourage “loving God with all your mind,” while their mind muscles are actively being stretched and worked out. I will pray for you to know how to encourage those around you to develop their minds in thinking about God and the world He has created. I will also pray that a “fire” will start in the women at your church!
Vicki V., you hit the nail on the head in that this stuff that we’re considering needs to be “chewed on and chewed on . . . and then we must do some real soul searching.” As I mentioned before, this is not a hard book, but it is not an easy book either. For those of us who have been out of school for a long time, our mind muscles have likely become weaker than they once were, as we go through our everyday lives of jobs, church, kids, etc. This book is an opportunity to stretch those muscles. It is something that must be studied, not just read. I hope that you all will plug on through it, though, because strengthening your mind muscles to the glory of God is well worth the effort!
Finally, Vicki M., I am planning to start a new blog entry that discusses the “empty self,” shortly. Stay tuned . . . .
Yeah Donna!
A feminine touch to the GF blog is well overdue! All we need now is a pink background on all of your entries.
Seriously glad you are out here, and appreciate someone else that enjoys typing a good 3 page blog entry! 😉
I can now encourage Mary to get on here and start checking out some topics and getting more involved, and hopefully other men with do the same with their wives and daughters.
Thanks again for you willingness to be out here and being willing to get stumped once in a while.
Since you mentioned daughters, I’m interested to hear how you ladies (and gentlemen) with older children teach (or encourage?) children to love God with all their mind. I fear I may be leading my kids down a “Trust me! I know the answers (just don’t ask me questions)” road. What age is appropriate to encourage them to do their own study? I’m guessing 3 is too young…:0) I don’t want them to think they “get” it but not be able to defend what they believe. I was in my mid twenties before I was challenged (seriously, anyway) and was surprised at how little I knew about something I had professed for fifteen years. That experience changed my walk with Christ, or maybe had just started it.
Thanks for any tips!
Tracy,
I’ve got a 22-year-old son who believes with all his heart, soul and mind and a 20-year-old daughter who is filled with doubts and some bitterness. Same house, values, churches, parents, etc. I’ll admit that we have not done a good job with the “reasoning” aspect of our faith with her but nor was it any different with her brother.
I disagree with J.P. Morland’s approach that “if they (his children) ever got to the point where they thought it was unreasonable to believe that Christianity was true, then they should abandon the faith” (bottom page 98). Isn’t that the perfect time and opportunity to put reason into practice? Wouldn’t you try to find out their reasoning and set them straight if it’s skewed? Our plan for our daughter will be to educate ourselves first in how to reason intellectually and then pray like there’s no tomorrow!
As for a 3-year-old? I would advise that your witness would be your most effective tool because believe me, kids are watching your every move and listening to your every word. My words and actions have been recited back to me verbatim when all the time I thought they were playing and humming to themselves. My bad.
Ladies, please correct me if I’ve misunderstood J.P. because I often get it wrong when I try to go up against something an intellectual teaches. Hence a good reason to practice 🙂
Tracy, your question is a great one! I’ll be posting a new blog tonight where people can add their ideas and suggestions.
Vicki, you make a great point that we should put reason into practice when we have doubts, and that we should help those with skewed views, and above all we should “pray like there’s no tomorrow!” I’m in absolute agreement with you!
I think that what Moreland intends to communicate with his example is that if there is not good reason to believe in Christ, none of us should. The reason that he challenges his children this way is because he’s confident there IS good reason to believe in Christ. Our faith has lots of evidence to support it. If we can not reasonably believe it, then we’re essentially only pretending, anyhow. And if we believe it, and it’s not true, then we have no hope. Therefore, we should examine the evidence and come to a reasonable conclusion from that evidence. I tend to like his approach for those who may be doubting or questioning their faith. It sends them straight to the frontlines to examine the evidence for themselves, rather than trusting in someone else’s faith. This is the approach that folks like Lee Strobel, C.S. Lewis, and Josh McDowell’s son (I don’t remember his name) took in studying the claims of Christ. As you know, they all came to the Truth.
Eric reminded me of 1 Corinthians 15:17-19 where Paul says “and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.” I went back and read the whole passage, and Paul is defending the resurrection of the dead by proving Christ’s resurrection to those who are doubting it. Throughout chapter 15, he is continually reasoning and giving support for believing in Christ’s resurrection. His conclusion is that if it didn’t happen, their faith doesn’t matter. In fact, it would be a complete waste. BUT, it DID happen, and this (all the evidence he lays out) is how the people can be sure that their faith is reasonable.
Still, I believe with you, that the Scriptures teach us that someone cannot be reasoned into the kingdom without the work of the Spirit. So, I’m in absolute agreement that reason alone is not enough. We must pray! And we must trust that God, in His great goodness and grace, will reveal His truth to those who are doubting, as they look at the evidence for faith in Christ.
I will be praying with you, that your daughter will be brought into an assurance of the claims of her faith, and that her life will be changed because of it.
Here’s a recent case in point on the whole “is there good reason to believe” question: The Lost Tomb of Jesus. In the wake of that whole thing, there were many who said they would still believe in Jesus even if it turned out that He never rose from the dead.
In other words, they value Christianity for some reason other than “because it’s true.”
The problem is this: most folks don’t think clearly enough about these issues to realize that’s what’s going on. Kudos to you ladies who are undertaking this study and fighting this kind of fuzzy thinking that is no friend to the Gospel.
Right there with you Vicki having two children at very different places spiritually.
It has been such and encouragement to myself and Mary with all of the support of so many at GF. The genuine concern and willingness to take time with both of our children, and to pray with us and for us has really given us hope that God will do a work in both of our children in His time.
My 17 year old is highly intelligent (left handed-right brained) but does not want to be reasoned with. So we love, pray for, and show him Christ through our lives and trust God to do His will.
Not sure what else can be as my hope in Christ should be enough, though it does not always feel that way.