The Chicago Tribune is reporting that some parents of students who attend Deerfield High School are upset because it seems that their school is promoting a homosexual agenda by having a mandatory freshman orientation class that includes gay students talking about their own experiences.
To be fair, the panel sessions do include topics such as study habits, becoming getting familiar with the school and its resources. However, the panels featured speakers from a school club, Straight and Gay Alliance, who openly talk about topics such as being bullied for being gay and being a friend of a homosexual person.
The school argues that the class is mandatory, but parents can choose to remove their child on the days this particular topic is featured. But, parents are catching on to the bent approach of this type of provision. Parent Lora Sue Hauser, who heads a group called North Shore Student Advocacy, said that, [within this provision] “The school makes heterosexuality and homosexuality equivalent…” Isn’t it true that the students who protest and do not attend these sessions are then made to feel like they are the ones who are disconnected with the school and society.
Mrs. Hauser goes on to say that she and dozens of parents belong to the advocacy group but fear they will be labeled as haters or religious fanatics if they speak out.
What Would You Do?
What would be a proper, God-centered response if you were a parent of a child at this school? Would you have a fear of saying anything like Mrs. Houser? Would you spread condemnation for the state of the school today? Start a “Christian” school where things like this would never happen? Determine to homeschool since that is the only sure-fire way to protect your kids from the homosexual push in our culture? How would you respond?
First thing is prayer. Second is action and involvement and not necessarily running away and trying to isolate your child. Every child and every circumstance is different and it should be up to the parent to decide whether a particular school system can be turned around and not peer pressure from other parents.
The schools are not the problem. The parents are the problem.
I would say to get involved in your children’s lives and get involved in their schools and the pulse. Join the PTSA and as a volunteer during the week. There are good school systems like Forsyth and bad ones like Fulton. Parents are supposed to have a say in the local schools but too many parents leave the school systems on cruise control and the bad (even evil) influences creep in. We are able to vote in the people we want to run the school board, and votes out the ones we don’t.
This HS in Chicago is an extreme example listed here from one school system. There are smatterings of strange things happening from time to time all over the country but it is not the norm.
It is important to keep in mind that there are good Christian schools and there are bad ones too. Kids have brought guns and shot them in Christian schools just like in public schools.
There are parents that home school very well and parents who home school badly. I remember a news story from a year ago where a teen that went on a shooting rampage was a home school child.
Point being is that we should be careful not to take individual situations and use them to make our own arguments against public schools and in favor of Christian schools or home schooling.
This school’s freshman orientation class is a clear example of the fallen world we live in and the politically correct society that wants to push an agenda of tolerance of sin to not offend anyone. That is anyone other that we who proudly name the name of Christ. We are free targets!
Parents, don’t let someone else raise your kids for you! Get involved in your kids schools!! Take the time!!!
Through it all we must find ways to be genuine, transparent, and salt and light to everyone. Giving God all the glory no matter the circumstance.
There comes a time when Christians must say ‘no’ to the state. That time is when the state forbids something that God commands or commands something that God forbids. The state is here commanding that we accept something God rejects – homosexual behavior. However, in this particular case the option to say ‘no’ is still relatively easy in that parents can opt their children out of these sessions. However, its not an option completely without consequences for the parent or the child. This could be an excellent teaching moment for our children, a real life example that standing for Christ often means persecution even if that persecution is only being made fun of or being considered odd or out of step. The persecution will get worse if the time comes, as it has in some states, where the ability to opt out of these kinds of things is removed. Our choice to say ‘no’ to the state then could have much more serious consequences.
However, if we’re not willing to take a little heat and be labled different over something like this, what will happen to us when real persecution comes? I’m currently reading ‘Tortured for Christ’ by Richard Wurmbrand. He says that the Nazi occupation of Romania was helpful to the church in that it gave them a taste of what was to come under Communism, thereby helping them to bear up under unimaginable suffering. Smaller (relatively speaking) persecutions can be God’s way of preparing us for larger ones.
What would I do in this specific instance? If I feel my child should remain in this school system I would opt my them out of the sessions. I would then make them aware of what may come their way as a result of that and teach them the value of standing for Christ in a fallen world, perhaps sharing with them some of the stories of the martyrs of the faith or those like Richard Wurmbrand who have suffered much greater things in order to remain true to Christ. I would also continue to lobby the government to eliminate these dis-information sessions as is my right as a citizen. I have to being willing myself to stand for truth and to be considered out of step or bigoted or whatever else if I’m asking my child to do as much. If I felt my child was not at a place where I could in good conscience ask them to face the consequences of this, I would have to consider removing them from the public schools in some way.
To be fair to the school system in question, based on the information given above, the state is not “commanding” anything. This is an optional session(s) (within a mandatory orientation) that features speakers from a club, which is presumably run by students as many school clubs are. While it is likely that this is another P.C.-fueled move, it is also likely that this particular school has a more widespread problem with the bullying of certain groups of students, and since the school has the duty to protect its students, this may be (in their minds) one of the better preventative measures that school officials have at this point in time. Keep in mind that this is a public school; the world doesn’t see this as an issue of tolerance of sin.
A fear of parents and students being labeled or viewed differently for choosing not to attend these sessions is valid, but it should not be determinative. In choosing not to participate, believers may be “persecuted” to a degree, but they are also given an opportunity to speak in love the truth of the gospel and of God’s Word to other parents and students. From personal experience, I know that students in public schools who consistently live out a faithful, growing relationship with Christ are very powerful witnesses to other students and teachers around them. Parents, if your children are followers of Christ, disciple them and teach them how to interact biblically with the surrounding culture, how to live a life that is cross-centered, and how to share the gospel and speak the truth of God’s Word in love. Also, as Mr. Nix commented, get involved with your child’s (children’s) school(s).
On a separate and final note, not all public school systems are “bad;” not all individual schools within a system are “bad;” and not all staff within individual schools are “bad.” It is probably best not to cast a whole system in such a negative (and vague) light. Also, I would be wary of labeling schools as “bad” on the basis of a student choosing to bring a weapon to school to commit an act of violence. That does not necessarily reflect the nature of the school or its educational value but rather the nature of the student.
Sessions like this are not simply a plea to be tolerant of those who differ from us. If that were the case they could simply have a ‘don’t bully’ workshop not focused on any particular population. They are instead a promotion of homosexuality as a legitimate alternative to heterosexuality. The message is not just ‘don’t bully’ but ‘don’t bully and by the way there’s nothing wrong with what homosexuals do’. Students are being told they should (if not must) accept homosexuality as natural and normal. Having this point of view promoted by the school administration is tantamount to the state endorsing it. Its not far from endorsing to requiring.
We don’t need to fool ourselves that its simply a reaction in this particular school to bullying, it is part of an orchestrated effort across this nation on the part of homosexual activists to legitimize homosexual behavior. Some school systems are worse than others but the push is there. As the local public schools come more and more under the control of the Federal Government (through things like Bush’s ‘no child left behind’ regulations) we will begin to see this kind of thing in other school districts, even those that may not normally support such things locally. It will become a requirement in order to receive federal funds, etc.
However, I do agree that we as Christians by being willing to stand out in opposition to this issue could have some excellent opportunitites to be a witness for Christ. That would certainly be part of the purpose and the hope of having a child remain in the school and opt out of the sessions. Not just that they would learn there is sometimes a cost for following Christ but that often through situations like this Christ is glorified by His followers and some are drawn to Him as a result.
This is highschool. I don’t think I will be trying to “protect” my kids from knowledge of the homosexual agenda — by this age they should be well aware of it. They should also be well aware of what the scriptures say about the topic.
I would also hope that they would have taught that bullying anyone is not an example of Christ’s love for sinners like us. On a social level, homosexuality and heterosexuality should be treated equally. We as believers should befriend them and treat them fairly.
It sounds to me like the core issue here is separation of sex and state mixed with the issue of bullying.
Should we say anything? I would wonder what the topic is. Is it saying that homosexuals are people too and they shouldn’t be treated like animals? I would hope I already taught my kids that too and would have no problem attending. Is it saying that homosexuality is fun and you should give it a whirl? Then I would have to protest.
Switch the tables and imagine this is a “Christians are people too and shouldn’t be persecuted in halls” class. I imaging we’d have no problem with that and encourage the Gospel to be shared and would LOVE to make it mandatory. Well, what about an “Islams are people too” class? More about equal representation here.
Things have to be presented as “this is what Christianity/Islam/Heterosexuality/Homosexuality/Capitalism/Socialism/Communism is” — once you move into proselytizing, you’ve crossed a line in most minds.
As for me, I would want to go with my kid and listen to what the orientation class has to say. Then we could discuss it later. BUT … there is a good chance that might embarass my kid so I’ll settle for a video tape to watch later.
Please indulge me on just one more of my infamously long entries. It has been a long time and I have tried recently to be as short and concise as possible. 😉
Should you decide to have your children in the public school system, be involved in the school and the lives of your children. Communicate.
I don’t believe there is a conspiracy nationwide to corrupt our youth in the public school systems, though there are lobbying organizations that are trying to get a foothold. There is however a worldwide conspiracy of evil over good, wrong over right, and a spirit of Anti-Christ that is something we can and should never run from.
I like Davo/Guiroo’s comments that our High School aged kids should have been brought up to be mature enough in Christ and in life for this to not be so traumatic. However, the attempt at a backdoor indoctrination of beliefs that come in direct opposition to our faith cannot be left to stand.
Standing up for what you believe is important, but can be done in in a way where everyone knows where you stand without being on a soap box harshly condemning. We will be persecuted in this world for living for Christ. Not for screaming at the top of our lungs about how bad everybody else is and how noble we are. People will just hate us then for being arrogant jerks. We are Salt and Light!
In other words people should persecute us because we follow Christ and they know our love for Him and each other as believers, and not because they believe we think we are better than they are.
This reminds me of a story from a friend I has as a teenager. He was not a believer and lived in New Orleans. There is a famous restaurant/bar there called Pat O’Brian’s and every Friday night a group from a local church would come there, stand on the corner and literally yell at everyone about how being drunk was sin and that if they did not change their ways and come to Jesus, they would “burn in hell”. This was their weekly “outreach” program.
That situation hardened my friend and his friends from wanting to even consider the genuine love of Christ and His work on the cross. I was hopefully able to show a glimmer of the genuine love of Christ though my life and interaction with him at those summer camps that God might use one day.
We can shine the light without being a “flamethrower of righteousness” and at the same time not be wimps about it.
I would have talked to the officials at this school explaining my displeasure (calmly), shared my faith in Christ, met with other parents, and called a special meeting if necessary to discuss and put and end to it. Parents are supposed to rule the school. This goes back to my original points….
If all else failed and I chose to remove my child from that school, even that action would be done politely and gracefully without making a huge scene while making it clear to everyone why we made this decision. I would hope to leave a good impression.
Sometimes our actions in the name of Christ though well intentioned can come across so harshly that we turn more people away from Christ than potentially lead toward Him.
Yes, you can bring up to me the story of Jesus and the money changers in the church as an example of acting strongly toward blatent sin. But that was Jesus. That was God, that was His “House”, and that was an extreme situation. Could there be a similar situation where similar action on our part would be justified? Maybe….
We must live in the light of knowing that the world is watching. The genuine joy we have in following Christ and loving each other as believers can cause persecution, but it can also be used of God to bring others to himself.
Do we all just hold hands and sing Koom-Ba-Ya? No! Do we get involved in the lives of our children and their school, sacrifice our own time if necessary for their good and for the opportunity of shining the light to so many who are so lost? You bet!!
Would our decisions and actions be motivated for spreading God’s fame, or making us feel better about ourselves but thinking we are doing something “good”?
That’s my opinion…….
Just to clarify a point in my previous post… When I wrote, “the world doesn’t see this as an issue of tolerance of sin,” I meant that in the world’s mind, this is not a SIN issue — people are being attacked for their “lifestyle choices” (again, according to the world). Tolerance, yes; tolerance OF SIN, no. “Sin” in public schools has a much more limited definition — the kind of offenses for which students get detention, suspension, or expulsion.
Based on the information provided, all we know is that this session is about bullying a particular group of students and being a friend to someone who may be considered an outsider by many. I would hope that parents would take time to talk with the school and find out more about the nature of the sessions (as guiroo commented) before jumping to conclusions.
I agree with guiroo. We’re talking about high school students; at this point in their lives, they are no doubt aware of the homosexual agenda and should be trained to know what Scripture says about the issue and how to interact with homosexuals (as well as any unbelievers) in a Christ-like manner. While many Christian parents try to shield their teenage children from the world, the fact of the matter is that at some point in the coming years, they will have to face issues like this (to varying degrees). That is why it is important to use real-life situations like this to disciple them (using discernment and godly wisdom, of course).
Excellent discussion points. I’m curious… would you (eveyone and anyone reading this) agree with the following statement: “The age of the students involved is more important than the issue itself.” In other words, if this were happening to a 6th grade class would you be more vigilant in venting your frustration and staking a claim that this is wrong for the public school to do?
Dan, good point and, yes, abosolutely. The younger the student the more staunchly we should stand against it. There have been cases where children as young as kindergarten age have been exposed to this topic through pro-homosexual children’s books read to them in a classroom setting.
I think there’s an inverse relationship between the age of the student and the liklihood of a sinister agenda on the part of those promoting this. In other words, the younger someone wants to introduce kids to this topic the more sure you can be that their agenda is indoctrination rather than just the supposed ‘no bullying’ or ‘tolerance’ explanation put forth as the agenda in this case.
Yeah, it has a lot to do with it. I’d be interested if there are any middle schools out there with a “Straight and Gay Alliance Club.”
I just think this is a topic we can’t avoid and must be diligent to teach our kids instead of trying to ignore it. Like it or not society will teach them if we don’t. For instance, last summer we were at the neighborhood pool with our 6 and 3 year olds. A homosexual couple was showing general public affection — nothing over the top — stuff any decent heterosexual couple would do. It was earlier than I would have liked, but it was a teachable moment.
Sorry I didn’t relate my comment to the quoted text Dan.
I can’t say that “this is wrong for the public school to do” just yet. We aren’t quite sure what “this” is. And it depends on your definition of what “is” is of course. 😉
Age is important. Larry nailed it that there is a clear line drawn when a similar discussion would be considered teaching “tolerance” in high school and would be “indoctrination” in elementary and middle schools. The younger the child the more they are skulls full of mush and impressionable. We know it and so do the groups pushing these agendas!
Great discussion guys. So, would you (anyone reading this) make a sharp distinction between this attempt to normalize homosexual relationships in high school vs. it happening to your child in the 6th grade? Why or why not?
Let’s establish pre-K, elementary, middle, and high school levels.
Given the current state of society, public schools have two options:
A. Address the topic
B. Ignore the topic
What option at what level and why?
Let me just go ahead and get the “Kansas” option out of the way:
Pre-K, B, Because the Bible says it’s sin
Elementary, B, Because the Bible says it’s sin
Middle School, B, Because the Bible says it’s sin
High School, B, Because the Bible says it’s sin
Mr. Miller, I am curious as to your positions on the questions you have raised.
We would certainly modify our response based on the age of the students but as quiroo points out, its not appropriate for government to try to ‘normalize’ sexual immorality among any age group. God’s purpose for civil government is to keep the peace and to punish evil (Romans 13). Promoting and celebrating something that God calls sin (essentially celebrating evil rather than punishing it) is certainly not within the scope of that responsibility therefore the government schools should stay out of it at all levels.
Just like public schools should ignore any other religion besides protestant Christianity right? It’s not appropriate for government to try to ‘normalize’ idolatry among any age group, right?
Sounds kind of like a theocracy to me.
All governments are theocracies. The only question is which god do they serve and use as their standard? We make a mistake when we assume there’s a neutral position. Relegating Christianity to the level of other religions and treating it exactly the same as other religions is not a neutral position, its a polytheistic position.
Should people have the right in our society to pursue and believe in false religions? Yes. Should our government subsidize or encourage that? No.
Dear Visitor, I am not exactly sure as to my “position.” However, I know two things concerning how I would respond: #1. I believe Christians and people in general tend to cower at the thought of offending people in the public school system. I believe schools need to be held accountable to educate in the disciplines of learning, not the customs of an ever-changing society. If there is an issue with bullying, then discipline the bullies, don’t push a social agenda. I believe this is a result of bad leadership in the schools in general. I would oppose this thought-process at any grade level.
#2. I would want to “oppose” in a way that represents my hope not in keeping the schools clean or conflict free, but in the freedom that comes with being a slave to Christ. With that being said, I also don’t want prayer in school or mandatory religious training of any kind. I want the schools to teach the classic disciplines – reading, writing, etc. My hope is not in reforming schools to be “christian” but I do want them to provide an environment for all kids that is educationally rich and meaningful to a productive life in society. I have no problem with kids discussing issues like this or reprsenting differing religious viewpoints, but I do not like the school bowing to pressure groups with moral agendas. When the school joins forces with a group pushing a lifestyle, such as homosexuality, that has no part in a true system to educate my kids, I will speak up. If people do not think it is “nice” or “loving” that I do this, well, I will do it anyway since it is the right thing to do. I see my voice balancing off the other “liberal” side that is seeking to make the school system a place for indoctrination. However, I think there would be some conservatives who would not want me on their side either.
I always want to be thoughtful of the varied aspects of my dealings with these types of issues so that I will be balanced in my approach.
Thanks for asking.
Larry says:
Dan says:
Let’s use Dan’s position and turn the tables by applying Larry’s position:
What’s a public school system to do?
Larry, your position assumes our government holds a “true religion.” Please show me where it is documented that our government is to use the God of the Bible as its standard.
I think the role of the public school is similar to the role of government (as originally intended). For example, the government has an expressed duty to protect our personal liberties and to keep us safe from enemies to and in our society. A public school, as an extension of the government, should protect personal liberties of those who choose to live a lifestyle of homosexuality by punishing people for bullying based on a dislike for this choice. However, when a school showcases a certain lifestyle and then by default forces one party, namely the Christians in this example, who disagrees with that chosen lifestyle to remove themselves from a school program intended to help them as students; they have created a situation in which those who disagree with the choice to be homosexual are alienated.
The choice by the leadership pushes a belief system (it’s normal to be homosexual so don’t pick on homosexual kids) and, at the same time, constricts the environment for learning for all involved due to the conflict that arises between belief systems. It is true that public schools will have tons of varied beliefs and practices, but the school endorsing these through “PC” programs is completly wrong-headed.
What’s a public school system to do? Educate. If the climate that fosters education is in jeopardy, protect by punishing not endorsing or normalizing a lifestyle that is viewed by many as immoral. If not, the result will be conflict and an environment that is distracted from learning. I betcha’ Deerfield High is not achieving the desired level of learning due to the weak choices of the leadership of the school to pursue this program.
Dan you said,
“I have no problem with kids discussing issues like this or reprsenting differing religious viewpoints…”
What about the school itself? Should the school educate kids on differing religious viewpoints?
Yes, as it relates to the core curriculum. History should discuss issues relevant to religious beliefs when those religious beliefs intersect with historical events needed to be learned in order to have a well rounded education. For example, the founding of our country and the role various religious beliefs played.
There will always be controversy, but the decision to highlight a particular group in the example we have been discussing is a great example of poor thinking and weak leadership.
Actually I do not at all assume our government holds to the ‘true religion’, quite the opposite in fact.
As far as where to look for a written standard (besides scripture), I’d start with the Mayflower Compact. Then the Declaration of Independence, moving on to the Articles of Confederation, the U.S. Constitution, the constitutions of the various states, etc. Without exception these documents (and a plethora of others) point to the God of the Bible as the source of truth, of law and of rights and as the bedrock on which our nation was founded.
I guess this is where I’d disagree with Dan a little bit. We can’t assume that teaching the ‘basics’ in a religious or moral vacuum is going to happen – in any school, public or otherwise. The concept of ‘what is truth’ impacts all disciplines in one form or another so our truth source is very important. What do we do with science for example? Apart from some faith based explanation, there is no way to talk about origins, the only question is which explanation will be given? What is the ‘core curriculum’ teaching on that topic? The same with history. Is it the story of the providence of God in this world or just a discussion of acts of random chance?
I’m not under any illusion that our government schools will become Christianized and, a point on which I do agree with Dan, I don’t know that I want them to be at this point given what often passes for Christianity these days. However, I think we need to understand that none of what goes on in public schools is religiously neutral. Imagine the firestorm that would erupt if someone said ‘OK, you can have a talk promoting the acceptability of homosexuality as long as other students can talk to the same audience from a contrary perspective when you’re done.’ Never happen in a million years. The reason it won’t happen is that what’s being said by the pro-homosexual folks is assumed to be true by those in charge of public education so they see no need to counter it. Again, the issue is what is our truth source? What do we do when the truth as put forth by the public schools and THE Truth contradict one another? I guess that is the real issue here.
Larry believe it or not, we probably agree on the idea that truth impacts all disciplines.
I also see Dan’s point about how the paricular method alienates those that don’t think homosexuality is okay, but outside of religion, we don’t have much to go on — remember this?
In a secular-humanist system all we can say is, “We are of the opinion that a particular flavor of ice cream is inherently evil.”
Guiroo, are you conceding that the public schools are officially secular humanist? Or, do you mean to say in a pluralist society?
If you mean the former, I’m not sure that any Christian parents could send their kids to such a school with a clear conscience. If you mean the latter, then what should that look like (in a matter like this), since, as Larry has pointed out, there is no neutral position? Should the Christian have the opportunity to make a case for the immorality of homosexuality?
Larry, I would agree with you wholeheartedly that no parent should assume a moral-neutral environment in any “public” forum. Everyone has a belief system that informs their every action and teaching. I fully expect history, science, and math to be slanted to some degree by whomever teaches it. But I believe this is inevitable and strays too far from the basic point I was trying to make. So… I will not try to “fight” on multiple fronts; I will leave the issue of “what is truth” or “the truth source” to you.
“Release the hounds…”
Dan, no hounds forthcoming. 🙂
Thx Eric, it depends on what department your dealing with.
If it’s Literature, History, political sciences, and art then I’d say value-pluralism. If you are talking with the science departments then I’d say naturalism.
As for what it looks like, I need to do more research and I can’t get to the sites needed from work.
Greeting’s
I just wanted to quickly point out that if your children are in public school, your parental mind set should be that you are engaged in daily all out war! We are desensitize to the radical impurity of our culture. Try to get your hand’s on a copy of Francis Schaeffer’s ” A Christian Manifesto”. This is a compelling call. Thanks
So what should the non-public school mindset be?
(Still working on that answer Eric. 🙂 )