One of the calls of the Emergent Church these days is that the Church needs be not so focused on truth (what id right what is wrong, etc.) and more focused on authenticity.
This part of the strange irony coming out of that movement.
If you had to pick one word to best capture the meaning of the word authentic, what would it be? How about true?
I think authentic means there is no deception, uncertainty, or confusion about what something is.
This is great news. Does that mean the Emerging Church is going to say what it is?
I am not sure I understand the concept here completely as stated. I would like to read some specific quotes of people telling others to “focus less on truth”. Let me take a stab at my interpretation of this concept without having any context to read and maybe I will weave into traffic and hit something of value.
I guess like everything in life there should be a balance. All things in moderation.
This does not mean that truth is not important, or that we should not proclaim the truth constantly.
However, we should not be a bunch of haughty intellectuals and speak over people’s heads so that they can’t relate to us one on one. Many people don’t care to discuss the original Greek or Hebrew all the time, or maybe at all. They have hurts and sins and struggles and just want a friend that cares about them, and will listen to them instead of talking all the time.
We can show a balance of a sincere love for people, while at the same time using the knowledge of the truth God has given through study of His Word without placing a wall or pedestal between us.
Not talking about seeker, watered down stuff here. Just genuine love and the willingness to communicate where people are at.
To me that is being authentic to others, and I always want to be that way in every part of my life. The C.A. you see on Sunday is hopefully the C.A. you would see as a fly on my wall at home. Not perfect, but trying to just be myself. Call that authentic or genuine if you wish. I hope you see that in me, and I desire that in others that I wish to fellowship with in the Body of Christ.
Hey CA, the irony I was responding to is that defining the Emerging Church movement has been compared to nailing Jell-O to the wall. The EC is so steeped in postmodern deconstruction (see next paragraph) that its most prominent proponents (Brian McLaren et al) can be counted on to confuse more than clarify when it comes to issues of truth.
By “postmodern deconstruction,” I mean “the tendency we see nowadays for people to take anything to mean whatever they want.” It’s admittedly a somewhat haughty and intellectual phrase, but it’s more economical with words.
If I can find some time I’ll try to dig up some of those quotes. If you want to get a head start on me, the first place I would go to start looking is Stand to Reason – I happen to know they’re tracking the Emergent Church business pretty closely.
It’s funny you say that. Eric, David, and I were just discussing something along those lines yesterday… how we don’t want to become a sort of “one-trick pony” church where people say, “Grace Fellowship? They’re just a bunch of ivory-tower Calvinists.”
Christ didn’t call us to that kind of thing. He called us to repentance and love, and he expects worship and praise.
Eric aptly observed that Jesus didn’t do a bunch of original language studies to prep the Twelve, nor did he give the Great Commission as a charter to “go into the world and print Bibles.”
When it comes right down to it, the academic side of following Christ can be pretty sterile if that’s all you’re about. (I’m deliberately resisting the urge to qualify that statement!) The people side of things is messy… but that’s got to be what we’re about.
Jesus didn’t say, “I was ignorant and you set my theology straight;” he said, “I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.”
So in that sense, yeah… what you said. 🙂
(Here comes the “But…”)
However, I’m kind of stuck when you say something like that. Sorry folks, I really do talk and think like that. If I avoid using terms like “postmodern deconstruction,” I am (in a sense) being inauthentic. A good communicator must have the charity of clarity to make himself understood, but that still leaves room for style…
One of my wife’s great comebacks to me is, “OK, in ‘dummy words,’ what did you just say?” It’s her way of affirming me and reminding me to be charitable at the same time. (Hey sweetie, if you’re reading this: You Rock!)
Any ladies out there care to share how you rein in your men when they need it?
Good stuff Hugh! Thanks! If that is the way you are and the way God wired you, that is totally authentic. I guess the point was to be intellectual and also arrogant about it. I don’t know anyone at GF that way, but it should be something we are sensitive to when conversing with others. We want to be salt and light but not salt in a wound nor light as in spotlight in your face.
What I like is when you make a definition of something like “post modern deconstruction” after using these $64,000 terms. That helps us less studied folks to understand and relate better. 😉
Thanks Again!
P.S. More links please for me to bone up on.
C.A., D.A. Carson has a pretty good analysis of the Emergent Church here. You can listen on-line or download the MP3s for a small fee.
Thanks a lot, CA… my frustration has been renewed trying to find those quotes. I’ve had to read a whole lot of nonsense trying to find something that makes the point but the problem is that these guys just won’t say what they believe!
Sorry, I can’t track down something specific as it relates to authenticity. I had better success trying to go after the broader topic of epistemology (how it is that we know things – see link for extended definition).
Here are links to a PBS piece they did on Emergent:
Part One
Part Two
Here is another D.A. Carson piece – adapted from his book on the EC.
STR’s blog had a couple of posts worth linking to:
The Key EC Issues: Truth and Epistemology
Some Clarity, Please
The trend I see is that EC-types come across all meek and Christlike until you start to make claims about The Way Things Really Are: The Concept Formerly Known As Truth.
At that point they say something that’s either belittling (“it’s clear you don’t understand”), they change the subject (“well, that’s the wrong question to be asking”), or just leave you scratching your head (“you know, that’s the kind of thing that causes wars”)…
What’s really frustrating is that there’s a lot to like about Emergent – at least, I think so, because I apparently don’t understand it very well…
I really like (what I perceive as) the EC’s willingness to embrace mystery, reject pat answers, and move away from the bestselling, mass-produced, new and improved, low-carb McSermon with zero grams trans fat at your friendly neighborhood OmniUberMegaHumongoChurch-o-Rama (brought to you by “God: Just Accept Me!” and the good people at http://www.jesusjunk.com)…
But they embrace mystery by (seemingly) rejecting certainty as a concept altogether. That’s going too far.
They reject pat answers by (seemingly) substituting non-answers… or nonsense. Too far again.
And their reaction against the caricature of the modern megachurch (think Rick Warren and Joel Osteen) is (seemingly) to go so freeform as to be completely “without form and void,” to borrow a phrase.
But that’s probably the kind of thing that starts wars. 😐
I will take some time on these links and maybe even pay a couple of bucks from the link Eric gave above. 🙂
So is there such a thing as the “First Emergent Church of Atlanta” or is it more of a concept or label?
I have heard the term, but can’t put a face on it.
absolute, accurate, actual, authoritative, bona fide, certain, convincing, credible, creditable, dependable, factual, faithful, for real, genuine, legit, legitimate, official, original, pure, reliable, sure, true, trustworthy, trusty, twenty-four carat, valid, veritable.
Thx for pointing out such irony. Like Hugh said there is much good in the movement that has swung the pendulum too far the other way. Could the original “call of the EC” that you pointed out be more along the lines of, “The church has its truth and that’s great but as a whole we need to focus on applying it — stop arguing over who sinned, this guy or his dad, and help the man in need”?
Just to add to this discussion… I think that those who are called to exegete the scriptures and formally preach it to others, and are gifted to do so, should and even must be up on the Greek and Hebrew. (I guess you guys have come to expect this kind of post from me). I don’t believe any of you would disagree. It seems that the Bible is clear that we must communicate the gospel to the non-believer and believer in a clear and persuasive fashion.
The layman might not have the same calling and therefore is not held to the same standard of exegetical clarity on the Judgment Day. For example, it is not for everyone to know Greek and Hebrew.
Two good books I recommend:
I just read D.A. Carson’s Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church. I’m sure the pun in the title is intended. It is excellent.
For the balance between “high-tower Calvinism” and pastoral care, I recommend The Religious Life of the Theological Student by B.B. Warfield.